Sherri Raschke	10/30/2001	8:49:20 PM	oops I got kicked off
Bruce Long	10/30/2001	8:49:35 PM	I did too.
Paulette Mangold	10/30/2001	8:49:37 PM	I think I am back
Mark Hawkes	10/30/2001	8:49:40 PM	We all got washed out Sherri, my doing since we froze up.
doug greenway	10/30/2001	8:49:55 PM	Welcome again
Sherri Raschke	10/30/2001	8:50:01 PM	ok so I don't get a complex
Mark Hawkes	10/30/2001	8:50:19 PM	Right Doug, welcome again
Bruce Long	10/30/2001	8:50:34 PM	I accepted calls from several people and now they are back.
Mark Hawkes	10/30/2001	8:50:49 PM	Thanks Bruce
doug greenway	10/30/2001	8:50:55 PM	Mark, Can we ask questions to start or can that come later?
Mark Hawkes	10/30/2001	8:51:02 PM	Now all we need is our guest of honor
Tammie Munsen	10/30/2001	8:51:11 PM	I'm back
Mark Hawkes	10/30/2001	8:51:44 PM	Let's get PRachee back on line, and give her the first word, then we'll pop questions at her.
Sherri Raschke	10/30/2001	8:52:09 PM	sounds like a plan
Mark Hawkes	10/30/2001	8:53:04 PM	Okay, let's talk about your DD2's how are they coming?
Christi Harter	10/30/2001	8:53:24 PM	hello
Paulette Mangold	10/30/2001	8:53:31 PM	good here
Joanne Ustad	10/30/2001	8:53:43 PM	You mean stage 2s
Mark Hawkes	10/30/2001	8:53:47 PM	Are you making sence of this process of data collecyion and analysis?
Mark Hawkes	10/30/2001	8:54:05 PM	Oh, thanks Joanne, right, stage 2's! Whew
Cliff De Long	10/30/2001	8:54:54 PM	Andy refurbed ours - Stacy and I have reviewed it - are looking to meet on it Thursday. Data Collection and Analysis make sense.
Heidi Noem	10/30/2001	8:55:08 PM	Ae we supposed to include issues such as validty and reliability with our data collection as that was mentioned in the few of the articles??
Mark Hawkes	10/30/2001	8:55:21 PM	Thanks Cliff, anyone else with a progress report?
Bruce Long	10/30/2001	8:55:27 PM	Is Prachee back yer. I just accepted a call from her.
Christi Harter	10/30/2001	8:56:03 PM	Doug, Bruce and Christi have revised Phase I and are meeting to complete Phase II Wed. night
Mark Hawkes	10/30/2001	8:56:32 PM	Good Christi, sounds like progress.
Christi Harter	10/30/2001	8:56:41 PM	yes, thanks for all the tips
Mark Hawkes	10/30/2001	8:57:20 PM	Good, glad they helped Christi
Mark Hawkes	10/30/2001	8:58:01 PM	One of the things I'll look for are how much consistency there is between your data sources and the questions you ask
Christi Harter	10/30/2001	8:58:47 PM	okay, what else?
stacy phelps	10/30/2001	8:59:03 PM	[Private] have i missed much
Mark Hawkes	10/30/2001	8:59:07 PM	I would hope you're really clear on the type of sources you're using too!
Mark Hawkes	10/30/2001	8:59:15 PM	Hi Prachee, ready to go?
Cliff De Long	10/30/2001	8:59:17 PM	[Private to stacy phelps] nope
Heidi Noem	10/30/2001	8:59:35 PM	Mark, how much detail are we supposed to go into regarding validity and reliability issues as that was brought up in several readings.
Mark Hawkes	10/30/2001	8:59:38 PM	Sorry we got bumped, just another day on the chat.
Joanne Ustad	10/30/2001	8:59:50 PM	can you elaborate on on the consistancy thing. Do you mean that they are connected?
Mark Hawkes	10/30/2001	9:00:22 PM	No much Heidi, I assume that the validty and reliability issues will take care of themselves once you get data saturation
Cliff De Long	10/30/2001	9:01:09 PM	[Private to stacy phelps] A common 21st century affliction that - data saturation
Mark Hawkes	10/30/2001	9:01:15 PM	Joanne, I mean that you're aksing the right kind of questions to the right kind of sources
Joanne Ustad	10/30/2001	9:01:27 PM	ok thanks
Cliff De Long	10/30/2001	9:01:34 PM	[Private to stacy phelps] A common 21st century affliction that - data saturation
Mark Hawkes	10/30/2001	9:01:41 PM	You probably would ask about professional development opportunities to students or parents, right?
Mark Hawkes	10/30/2001	9:02:18 PM	Looks like prachee is caught behind enemy lines. Is anyone getting her posts?
Paulette Mangold	10/30/2001	9:02:31 PM	I'm not
Christi Harter	10/30/2001	9:02:31 PM	no
Sherri Raschke	10/30/2001	9:02:36 PM	nope
Jennifer Nelson	10/30/2001	9:02:46 PM	no
Bruce Long	10/30/2001	9:02:47 PM	Nope, but I am getting a lot of calls still: Andy , Sandy, Cherykl
Mark Hawkes	10/30/2001	9:02:58 PM	Lisa Tolliver, are you on chat?
Cliff De Long	10/30/2001	9:03:07 PM	A common 21st century affliction that - data saturation ... Please define your meaning redundantly.
Mark Hawkes	10/30/2001	9:03:26 PM	Right Bruce, I've lat them in several times already. Must not be registering my access.
Heidi Noem	10/30/2001	9:03:28 PM	Mark, I haven't seen any messages from her either.
stacy phelps	10/30/2001	9:03:34 PM	it took me about a half hour to get into the chat
Mark Hawkes	10/30/2001	9:03:52 PM	Sorry Stacy, thanks for haning in there.
Christi Harter	10/30/2001	9:03:57 PM	me too, Stacy
Mark Hawkes	10/30/2001	9:04:04 PM	Saturation--should have explained it in the first place.
Bruce Long	10/30/2001	9:04:04 PM	Can we invite Prachee back?
Mark Hawkes	10/30/2001	9:04:18 PM	We can try Bruce.
Sherri Raschke	10/30/2001	9:04:42 PM	her name shows on my screen now
Sherri Raschke	10/30/2001	9:05:18 PM	is she back or am I out?
Mark Hawkes	10/30/2001	9:05:22 PM	When you have your sources repeating the same themes with the same intensity, you've reached saturation.
Cliff De Long	10/30/2001	9:05:29 PM	you are still here Sherri
Mark Hawkes	10/30/2001	9:05:34 PM	You're in Sherri
Christi Harter	10/30/2001	9:05:35 PM	Mark, do expect a table for the data section?
Cliff De Long	10/30/2001	9:05:37 PM	thanks mark
stacy phelps	10/30/2001	9:05:42 PM	seems like more people are back in. our count is up to 18 now and well 17 now
Mark Hawkes	10/30/2001	9:05:52 PM	I would like to see that Christi, a table organizs information so much better
Sherri Raschke	10/30/2001	9:05:59 PM	oh oh 16
Christi Harter	10/30/2001	9:06:05 PM	okay, thanks
Joanne Ustad	10/30/2001	9:06:10 PM	it is easier to work with too
Bruce Long	10/30/2001	9:06:17 PM	What was Christi's question?
Cliff De Long	10/30/2001	9:06:29 PM	[Private to stacy phelps] tabular works for us - that's what we put in on the Phase 1
Christi Harter	10/30/2001	9:06:35 PM	Mark verified that a table for data sources is needed
Mark Hawkes	10/30/2001	9:06:38 PM	When you've reached that point of saturation, additioal data collection is likely not to be fruitful because it will not yield any new insights
stacy phelps	10/30/2001	9:06:40 PM	does this chat have a capacity, cause it seem as if someone has to get kiccked out before others can get in? i encounter that almost all the time
Mark Hawkes	10/30/2001	9:07:02 PM	I don;t think so Stacy. I'll check into it.
Christi Harter	10/30/2001	9:07:12 PM	subliminal message
Mark Hawkes	10/30/2001	9:07:34 PM	Saturation is generally associated with qualitative techniques like interviews and focus groups.
Heidi Noem	10/30/2001	9:08:24 PM	Mark, when we say we're going to survey the teachers, do we have to have our actual survey completed to show you??
Cliff De Long	10/30/2001	9:08:39 PM	[Private to Prachee Mukherjee] Wow - I'm getting saturated - how about you Pratchee?
Christi Harter	10/30/2001	9:08:42 PM	so once you get a recuring theme, quit collecting?
Joanne Ustad	10/30/2001	9:08:59 PM	a little is good, too much gets in the way of understanding
Bruce Long	10/30/2001	9:09:02 PM	You said we didn't need to design the tools, right Mark?
Mark Hawkes	10/30/2001	9:09:11 PM	Heidi, no, there will be little instrumentation required of you . . .
Mark Hawkes	10/30/2001	9:09:44 PM	In a few weeks however, you will come up with a software evaluation protocol that is a part of you evaluation plan
	10/30/2001	9:10:07 PM	30 minutes later, I'm back in!
Mark Hawkes	10/30/2001	9:10:09 PM	Christi, right. Generally, saturation signals a need to move into other topics, areas.
Cliff De Long	10/30/2001	9:10:32 PM	hardware, netware, instructional methodology to follow?
Bruce Long	10/30/2001	9:10:36 PM	Could saturation mean you are asking the wrong questions?
Mark Hawkes	10/30/2001	9:10:39 PM	IS that you Prachee? Or Sandy?
Prachee Mukherjee	10/30/2001	9:10:58 PM	I'm here Mark... where did you guys disappear?
Mark Hawkes	10/30/2001	9:11:08 PM	Right Cliff, Our hardware and netware will be part of a technology audit process. Already though, some plans have that built in.
	10/30/2001	9:11:11 PM	I'm back through Bruce Long
Cliff De Long	10/30/2001	9:11:12 PM	cyberspace - fell right off into it
Mark Hawkes	10/30/2001	9:11:26 PM	Hio Prachee, somehow you got caught behind enemy lines!
Mark Hawkes	10/30/2001	9:11:34 PM	Three cheers for Prachee not giving up on us!
Sherri Raschke	10/30/2001	9:11:35 PM	its magic black evil magic
Mark Hawkes	10/30/2001	9:11:38 PM	Hip hip . . .
Cliff De Long	10/30/2001	9:11:44 PM	hoo-
Cliff De Long	10/30/2001	9:11:45 PM	ray
Mark Hawkes	10/30/2001	9:11:58 PM	Okay, that will do.
Mark Hawkes	10/30/2001	9:12:09 PM	Prachee, tell us about what you do.
Prachee Mukherjee	10/30/2001	9:12:14 PM	As long as I'm getting your messages I guess I'm okay
Prachee Mukherjee	10/30/2001	9:12:35 PM	What I do ... I work as an evaluator for a school district, that's the formal part
Mark Hawkes	10/30/2001	9:12:50 PM	What does that all entail?
Prachee Mukherjee	10/30/2001	9:12:51 PM	Basically people think of me whenever they need to do surveys
Christi Harter	10/30/2001	9:13:17 PM	a high school?
Cliff De Long	10/30/2001	9:13:23 PM	Are you an internal evaluator?
Prachee Mukherjee	10/30/2001	9:13:23 PM	On the other hand, I get requests from the Board of Education or Program Directors/Curriculum Supervisors to evaluate their programs
Bruce Long	10/30/2001	9:13:28 PM	Are you a consultant or an employee of the district?
Prachee Mukherjee	10/30/2001	9:13:30 PM	I'm an internal evaluator
Mark Hawkes	10/30/2001	9:13:40 PM	Ah surveys, for folks who think eveything is a nail, they'll use a hammer
Prachee Mukherjee	10/30/2001	9:13:41 PM	An employee of the district
Christi Harter	10/30/2001	9:13:49 PM	do you work outside of your district?
Cliff De Long	10/30/2001	9:13:59 PM	on a consultant basis?
Prachee Mukherjee	10/30/2001	9:14:06 PM	Sometimes...I do freelance
Christi Harter	10/30/2001	9:14:08 PM	how many people to you work w/ to do an eval?
Mark Hawkes	10/30/2001	9:14:43 PM	INternal in the sense that she is employed by the district, to ply the lens of evaluation on their programs, curriculum, etc.
Prachee Mukherjee	10/30/2001	9:14:49 PM	It depends... usually it involves 2-5 central administators who get it going
Christi Harter	10/30/2001	9:15:01 PM	and how long does it take? normally?
Mark Hawkes	10/30/2001	9:15:20 PM	Prachee, how is it being an internal evaluator? A folks more or less apt to use your evaluation findings?
Prachee Mukherjee	10/30/2001	9:15:34 PM	It can also involve parent/community members... we have acoountability advisory committee members
Sherri Raschke	10/30/2001	9:15:46 PM	so that we have an idea, how large is the districts enrollment
Prachee Mukherjee	10/30/2001	9:16:24 PM	Typically the timeline is a school year or a semester
Prachee Mukherjee	10/30/2001	9:16:43 PM	35K students
Mark Hawkes	10/30/2001	9:16:52 PM	That's lots of surveys!
Christi Harter	10/30/2001	9:17:06 PM	what type of projects do you work with?
Mark Hawkes	10/30/2001	9:18:06 PM	I think I know part of that answer Christi, internal evaluators do a lot of evaluation on development programs. IS that true Prachee?
Prachee Mukherjee	10/30/2001	9:18:28 PM	I've done things like evaluating the implementation of a new math textbook, kit-based science curriculum, interactive-video based foreign lang ;program
Cliff De Long	10/30/2001	9:18:38 PM	Given the volume that you work with - that seems to be a large amount of tabulation - are you beginning to implement web-based surveys - do you contract with ETS, or just scan bubble sheets?
Christi Harter	10/30/2001	9:18:44 PM	interesting
Mark Hawkes	10/30/2001	9:18:54 PM	Pretty eclectic
Prachee Mukherjee	10/30/2001	9:18:56 PM	do you mean development as in pilot programs?
Mark Hawkes	10/30/2001	9:19:06 PM	Development in teacher training
Prachee Mukherjee	10/30/2001	9:20:04 PM	I do work on staff dev evaluation... not as extensive as I'd like it to be because we never get into 'impact' evaluation...
Mark Hawkes	10/30/2001	9:20:21 PM	We like that word--"impact"
Prachee Mukherjee	10/30/2001	9:20:37 PM	The web is not our medium yet because schools still have a lot of problems with technology
Prachee Mukherjee	10/30/2001	9:20:49 PM	The network is not always up if you know what I mean
Mark Hawkes	10/30/2001	9:21:15 PM	Are there poilcy or access issues with technology in your district Prachee?
Prachee Mukherjee	10/30/2001	9:21:21 PM	We have two automatic scanners and software to design our own surveys... more friendly than bubble sheets
stacy phelps	10/30/2001	9:21:22 PM	Well it would seem that an evaluation of the technology and it services is in order?
Prachee Mukherjee	10/30/2001	9:21:54 PM	certainly an evaluation of our technology plan implementation is long overdue
Mark Hawkes	10/30/2001	9:21:55 PM	Well put Stacy, and you happen to be closer to C Springs than the rest of us!
Prachee Mukherjee	10/30/2001	9:22:12 PM	But the district chooses to skirt that issue... it is too politicized
Bruce Long	10/30/2001	9:22:14 PM	It could be a class project!
Prachee Mukherjee	10/30/2001	9:22:17 PM	Let me tell you a real life story
Mark Hawkes	10/30/2001	9:22:32 PM	So when you look at technology use in the district Prachee, what kind of evidence are you gathering?
stacy phelps	10/30/2001	9:23:11 PM	It would seem that here in South Dakota we are so overwhelmed by technology that it is just seems to be natural integration or force of technology. i guess i forget that the rest of the country is still in an infancy in regards to technology
Prachee Mukherjee	10/30/2001	9:23:12 PM	The district needed to determine the bond amount to fund its tech program... called in the business community to detremine the bond size and the business community said we should promise the public a guarantee in test rsults
stacy phelps	10/30/2001	9:23:21 PM	that does not mean we use it well though...
Christi Harter	10/30/2001	9:23:41 PM	wow
doug greenway	10/30/2001	9:23:54 PM	Our staff can get real tired of another survey, what other instruments r methods are used in your district to gather feedback?
Mark Hawkes	10/30/2001	9:24:27 PM	Guarantees are easy to make, do they expect them to be kept?
Prachee Mukherjee	10/30/2001	9:24:39 PM	When I have looked at technology in the past it has been at bits and pieces. One elementary school was being used as a pilot by MCI to showcase its educational capability/support and I looked at teacher attitudes toward technoogy in the beginning
Cliff De Long	10/30/2001	9:24:58 PM	contract = offer and acceptance - hopefully the district told the business community where to put their bond issue and went with e-rate and fed. funding
Prachee Mukherjee	10/30/2001	9:25:02 PM	Then we moved to use of technology in the classroom and in personal/professional tasks. It was a 2-year project
Christi Harter	10/30/2001	9:25:07 PM	who obtains your results of an eval?
Mark Hawkes	10/30/2001	9:25:24 PM	YEs, some of us are looking at that, becasue as Stacy suggests, that has a lot to do with how well the technology might be used
Prachee Mukherjee	10/30/2001	9:25:31 PM	Results are public information, shared with the clients and schools
Cliff De Long	10/30/2001	9:25:38 PM	URL of MCI results?
Mark Hawkes	10/30/2001	9:25:39 PM	Technology asa productivity tool.
Christi Harter	10/30/2001	9:26:05 PM	who're your stakeholders, normally?
Prachee Mukherjee	10/30/2001	9:26:22 PM	Evaluation results are not on the district website or any website... but I can get them to you if you're interested
Prachee Mukherjee	10/30/2001	9:26:50 PM	Stakeholders are teachers, principals, parents and students. Support staff and community members at times
Cliff De Long	10/30/2001	9:26:55 PM	email to Mark please...
Mark Hawkes	10/30/2001	9:27:12 PM	I'll distribute Cliff
Prachee Mukherjee	10/30/2001	9:27:51 PM	With increasing demands on staff time any kind of data collection becomes an extra chore for the staff
Cindy Rall	10/30/2001	9:28:07 PM	What methods do you use to analyze the data that is collected?
Prachee Mukherjee	10/30/2001	9:28:12 PM	I have tried but not had much luck with data collection from staff via email
Bruce Long	10/30/2001	9:28:24 PM	Do you use focus groups?
Prachee Mukherjee	10/30/2001	9:28:33 PM	Yes focus groups and interviews are used
Mark Hawkes	10/30/2001	9:28:35 PM	Right, teachers are so pressed as it is. Few of them want to answer questions from a nosy evaluator.
Cliff De Long	10/30/2001	9:28:59 PM	Serious or cynical Mark?
Christi Harter	10/30/2001	9:29:00 PM	how do you make the teachers except you and your work?
Prachee Mukherjee	10/30/2001	9:29:02 PM	The Superintendent had me do focus groups to gather feedback on his first year's performance from various employee groups
Cindy Rall	10/30/2001	9:29:33 PM	That had to be a touchy subject
Bruce Long	10/30/2001	9:29:36 PM	Did you work with some one inthe focus gorups or did yo do it all?
Cliff De Long	10/30/2001	9:29:37 PM	[Private to Prachee Mukherjee] waste of taxpayer dollars that
Paulette Mangold	10/30/2001	9:29:39 PM	Did that help him to make the second year better
Mark Hawkes	10/30/2001	9:29:45 PM	Prachee, are you a single evaluator, or what does the evaluation staff look like?
Prachee Mukherjee	10/30/2001	9:29:45 PM	Usually the teachers aceept me based on what their content level supervisor or dept head tells them about the importance of the evaluation I'm doing...
Bruce Long	10/30/2001	9:29:51 PM	Good question Paullette
Prachee Mukherjee	10/30/2001	9:30:05 PM	I'm a single evaluator in the sense I'm the only one with formal training in it
Prachee Mukherjee	10/30/2001	9:30:35 PM	I have 2 assistants... one of them is studying for a degree in Social Work and I have stated using her as an assistant for focus groups, training her as I go along
Prachee Mukherjee	10/30/2001	9:30:54 PM	The other asst works mainly with data entry and prep stuff
Bruce Long	10/30/2001	9:31:02 PM	As a savvy notetaker?
Bruce Long	10/30/2001	9:31:58 PM	Or do you record focus gorup sessions?
Prachee Mukherjee	10/30/2001	9:32:02 PM	For the sup's evaluation, the themes that emerged were consistent across at least 2 groups for any theme and he found it treemendously useful, especially the comments in peopl's own words
Tammie Munsen	10/30/2001	9:32:45 PM	people's own words seem to mean more and are more effective than numbers
Prachee Mukherjee	10/30/2001	9:32:50 PM	We record focus group sessions and transcribe them but I have a pretty good memory and I always take my own notes also and work with them right after the focus group .. at least do a rough draft
Mark Hawkes	10/30/2001	9:33:22 PM	Nothing more powerful than a school board member than a constituates words.
Prachee Mukherjee	10/30/2001	9:33:31 PM	Exactly.
Bruce Long	10/30/2001	9:33:32 PM	A lot to keep track of.
Prachee Mukherjee	10/30/2001	9:33:54 PM	I also have learned that 'focus groups' is a term loosely used by others, in a non-research sense
Mark Hawkes	10/30/2001	9:33:59 PM	Prachee, what advice do you have for us busy teachers but novice evaluators?
Cliff De Long	10/30/2001	9:34:28 PM	[Private to Prachee Mukherjee] You could just take in a laptop and have it transcribe the session using voice recognition... Would that save time on data entry?
Prachee Mukherjee	10/30/2001	9:34:47 PM	I think what i've ;earned is to keep it simple... sounds really naive and it used to annoy me at first but
Christi Harter	10/30/2001	9:35:26 PM	thank you for being here, you were very informative
Bruce Long	10/30/2001	9:35:29 PM	OK Mark, we will work on simple!
Cliff De Long	10/30/2001	9:35:37 PM	K.I.S.S.
Heidi Noem	10/30/2001	9:35:39 PM	Simple is good!
Bruce Long	10/30/2001	9:35:48 PM	Yes, thanks Prachee.
Prachee Mukherjee	10/30/2001	9:35:50 PM	If you can ask the really important question and leave out the stuff that 'seems' interesting... the response burden is reduced
Paulette Mangold	10/30/2001	9:36:08 PM	That also makes tallying easier I would think
Prachee Mukherjee	10/30/2001	9:36:10 PM	And of course unobtrusive data collection
Mark Hawkes	10/30/2001	9:36:15 PM	Good advice that last part.
Andy Conrad	10/30/2001	9:36:19 PM	makes sense!
Cliff De Long	10/30/2001	9:36:20 PM	that applies to instructional chat quite nicely
Mark Hawkes	10/30/2001	9:36:45 PM	Cliff, very observant.
Prachee Mukherjee	10/30/2001	9:36:46 PM	Teachers are inundated with paperwork so it's worthwhile to find out what they're already doing and use that to answer evaluation questions
Mark Hawkes	10/30/2001	9:37:24 PM	Those are extant data sources. Things that we already have like bsentism rates, roles, computer logs, etc.
Mark Hawkes	10/30/2001	9:37:32 PM	Prachee, you've been a great chatter. Thanks for joining us.
Prachee Mukherjee	10/30/2001	9:37:37 PM	I ahve found that interviews are something teachers love... rthey say they can only spare 30-40 minutes but then they can't stop talking
Paulette Mangold	10/30/2001	9:37:41 PM	Then observation formal, informal is a big part of your evaluation process?
Prachee Mukherjee	10/30/2001	9:38:06 PM	Okay... thanks a lot for having me... this was fun.
Christi Harter	10/30/2001	9:38:12 PM	thank you
Jennifer Nelson	10/30/2001	9:38:18 PM	thanks
Mark Hawkes	10/30/2001	9:38:19 PM	I see Bruce starting to fall asleep
Tricia Neugebauer	10/30/2001	9:38:21 PM	thank you, Prachee
Mark Hawkes	10/30/2001	9:38:26 PM	So, we have to get him to bed.
Paulette Mangold	10/30/2001	9:38:27 PM	Thank you
Andy Conrad	10/30/2001	9:38:31 PM	Parchee, say HI to Bill !
Heidi Noem	10/30/2001	9:38:31 PM	Thanks.
Bruce Long	10/30/2001	9:38:36 PM	Nite everyone.
doug greenway	10/30/2001	9:38:40 PM	good night
Tammie Munsen	10/30/2001	9:38:40 PM	Thank you
Mark Hawkes	10/30/2001	9:38:46 PM	Sorry the chat started off so rough. BUt we had a strong finish
Tammie Munsen	10/30/2001	9:38:49 PM	see ya
Prachee Mukherjee	10/30/2001	9:38:54 PM	I will Andy. Gouys you have a geat teacher in mark I'm sure you all know that already.
Christi Harter	10/30/2001	9:38:54 PM	bye all, take care
Cindy Rall	10/30/2001	9:38:58 PM	thanks